Written by Delency — (all photography by Raven Shavers)
I found myself struggling with an opening for this piece. It may be all in my head, but I feel an immense weight of responsibility that is unique to this particular article and interview. Me being an organizer, whose organization’s (People’s Programs) work and ideology is born of the history of the Black Panther Party (BPP) — to be given the chance to sit down with Emory Douglas, the 80 year old world renown artist and former Minister of Culture for the BPP in his home was beyond an honor. I’m not sure there’s a word in my lexicon which can describe what I felt and define what this experience means to me and People’s Programs. I’ve studied Emory’s and the Panther’s work tirelessly, and through said study I’ve grasped the very necessity of speaking truth to power to the people; and the role that knowledge presented as a painting, photo, film, clothing, essay, free food program, or free health clinic can have on a people’s belief in their ability to contribute to the worldwide struggle for human equality, and the end to all oppression and exploitation!
If you look at our work over the last six years, you’ll see for yourself that art has been a key tool for People’s Programs as we engage in the process of unifying our community for positive change. In addition to our decolonization programs, the art produced by our organization has served as a means to enlighten the people to the backwardness of a society governed by capitalist domination and the culture this economic system produces. I.E. individualism, mass consumption, profit over people- just to name a few. And Senay Alkebu-lan, the 25 year old Oakland-based artistic polymath most known for his clothing line Madow Futur, has made some heavy contributions to the revolutionary art People’s Programs has distributed– whether it be designing and sourcing garments for our merch, contributing to the Tales of The Town art exhibit, digitizing the People’s Program’s logo, or providing visual designs to the first volume of this very magazine; Senay hasn’t hesitated to volunteer his many talents and skills to our mission (national unity) and efforts.
Sitting with a historical influence of People’s Programs in Emory Douglas, and the contemporary contributor to our “propaganda” in Senay, was a lesson in humility, discipline, and steadfastness. It was also a reminder of the dire need to be connected to our elders. Elders like Emory help us make sense of present day struggle(s) by reminding us of our Afrikan and revolutionary past that has been so warped by a capitalist-imperialist society that seeks to keep us (Afrikans & the working class masses) confused and ignorant- thus immobile and docile.
Young folks like Senay, give us an example of what can be done when we know our roots and put our own efforts forward to create history, like Frantz Fanon encouraged us to do in A Dying Colonialism!
Below you’ll find a conversation highlighting the experiences of two brothers who discovered and cultivated their talents, and then made it their mission to contribute these talents to the people. I hope you find it as inspiring and fulfilling as I did.
Free The People!
Free The Land!
Delency: Emory, in 1968, in a piece titled Revolutionary Art, you said “before, a correct visual interpretation of the struggle can be given. We must recognize that revolutionary art is an art that falls on the people. It must be a wholly living part of the people’s lives, their daily struggle to survive.” Can you expand on what you mean by that? And nearly 65 years later, do you still believe this to be true?
Emory: It’s about the quality of life and the concerns of the community that’s reflected in art. That’s why I call my art, “we art” not “me art.” Because it’s one of observing, listening, and understanding the people. Their suffering, their pain, their happiness and joy, all those things become a part of the artwork itself. The people see themselves in the art. Therefore they become heroes on the stage. They become part owners of it, and will take ownership of it if it actually reflects them. The 10 point program of the Black Panther Party reflects that.
Delency: The 10 point program was a by-product of the people’s situation. And so art should be the same.
Emory: It would be good if some of the art reflects that. You get some art that’s just for the aesthetic, but I’m talking about any art that is framed to be dealing with social justice concerns.
Delency: Senay, as an artist Emory pushes the ideology of “we art over me art.” What does that mean to you?
Senay: I think it’s so quintessentially human and quite honestly, an African way of looking at the work. The needs of the many and the needs of the individual being one in the same. If you consider the division between humans to be porous… in the sense that we are one, then your approach to your artwork will reflect that. And it took me some time. When I first started it was because I thought it (art) was necessary. Then my own feelings about things found their way into it later down the line. But I’ve been able to create a good balance of expressing the needs of the people in a way that feels true to my both individual identity, but also my communal identity as an African.
Delency: I’m wondering how y’all are able to keep this mindset? When you’re dealing with industries like visual art, fashion, music, film- the culture of these sectors are a by-product of monopoly capitalism. They push individualism and profit over people. How do y’all stay grounded?
Emory: You have to decide how you can do that (create) and keep your integrity.
Senay: The art practice and the art industry don’t always have to be connected. There’s a lot of practicing artists that don’t do so professionally. There are professional artists that don’t center their practice around profit. And that’s challenging because you need profit to survive in a capitalist system. And I struggle with that. Constantly. But I think that having community to really keep you grounded…I wouldn’t be doing the kind of work that I do had I not been completely grounded and surrounded by community.
Delency: So being accountable to the people outside yourselves…I also hear a bit of a policy of self-reliance vs depending on industry norms?
Emory: Well that’s where the creative comes from. For me it came out of being in the Black Panther Party. We had pamphlets we went out to sell to people in the morning. The community became the gallery because we passed them all over the neighborhood. A lot of our folks weren’t going to galleries. People were trying to struggle. People were going to work!
Senay: I mean, The Panther newspaper was raising millions of dollars and distributing thousands of copies on a weekly basis. And it was their work, in their voice. But if you think about other outlets that exist for sensationalism, entertainment, and ratings– technically, the model is the same, but the work is different and the intention is different. Both are selling tons of newspapers. But the difference is the intention behind it and the kind of work. The same thing goes into fashion, into art, into film, whatever kinds of modes you’ve chosen. You just have to get it out there because that is how the messages get pushed forward.
Emory: Now you’re talking about organization. [Individual] work ethic comes out of a collective work ethic. We used to work out of Eldridge Cleaver’s studio apartment because we didn’t have a headquarters. We would use whatever materials we had to get it done. When we made the decision that we had to get the paper out weekly…all that develops your work ethic. And you’re making a contribution so you want to do the best you can.
Delency: And it wasn’t just the paper existing on its own. You had folks who worked on the paper coming off a shift at the breakfast program…
Emory: Or working at the clinic, or attending a city council meeting. Then after all that, they had to come back if they were assigned to work on the paper.
Delency: Senay, you’ve been an avid supporter of People’s Programs. What draws you to our work?
Senay: The ideology of People’s Programs that is grounded in Pan-Africanism, but doesn’t do so in a way where it’s not tangible. There’s a clear beginning to end kind of trajectory that I don’t see often. I also like that People’s Programs is led by young people. I know that in ten years People’s Program is still going to be around, and it’s probably going to be much larger– And more impactful than it [currently] is. And so being able to support an organization that is doing the exact kind of work that I make art about, work that I want to be doing, is a great honor. And so I have to be wherever they are [People’s Programs].
Delency: Emory, how old were you when you joined the Party?
Emory: I was 21 going on 22. I came into the Party about 3 months after it started.
Delency: Did you see yourself living to be this old?
Emory: Well we didn’t think we were going to live past 30 years of age. Brother you have to understand…we were EXTREMELY radical! We were provocative, and we stood on our principles! We lived with an urgency. You had comrades being shot up, arrests taking place. And not just in the Party, but overall there were mass rebellions in the 50’s & 60’s. And it wasn’t like what you see now with the containment, you had mass amounts of people being injured and murdered. So that was just our thinking.
Delency: If there was one piece of advice you’d give your younger self serving in the role of the Minister of Culture for the Black Panther Party, what would it be?
Emory: When working in a collective you have to be mindful of who you work with. To make it work in a harmonious way as much as you humanly can. You got people coming from different qualities of life, different upbringings, to bring about change…it’s not like you just jump in and everything is hunky dory, joy and happiness, you have to deal with issues too.
Delency: What are three books y’all would recommend to artists to help them deepen their understanding of revolutionary art?
Emory: Ima tell you what we did as youngsters: Huey used to sell the Little Red Book because of the fact that it had universal principles that you could apply to your struggle. Not just the Chinese struggle, but the Black struggle. Plus, we were developing our own language, our own culture, an African-Black culture, in the context of who we were and what we were about. But we read the Red Book and Frantz Fanon…
Delency: Any Fanon or a specific text?
Emory: Well with Fanon you can read it all, but even when you read it, you don’t understand it.
(*breaks into laughter)
Emory: So we were trying to understand it, and then you had brothers and sisters on different levels, but all the education and enlightenment came from us having those discussions around those books. But, you see, you can’t get too caught up in books, you gotta put the rhetoric into practice. Cause if you aint got that, you can visualize amazingly and think that you have won the revolution…that you done changed the world, until you get out in the real world…so that’s why you have to have theory and practice.
Senay: I’m also kind of a proponent of understanding over information, if that makes sense. Even though you have to have information to develop understanding. But the books that I always come back to are Let The Circle Be Unbroken by Marimba Ani, because I feel like it’s important to have an African worldview, or you’ll end up viewing your people in a way that isn’t reflective of who we are. Philosophies and Opinions of Marcus Garvey I like a lot because of how it’s organized. I mean, whatever subject you’re thinking about, or a piece of philosophy, it’s like, “oh, well, you know what? What would Marcus Garvey say?” Obviously, Marcus Garvey is not Jesus, but he’s great!!
(*We share a collective laughter)
Senay: And I think How Europe Underdeveloped Africa would probably be the third. It gives us a cultural context for understanding how we got to where we are. Because I think a lot of folks don’t realize the perpetual robbery and destruction of Africa happening in the present day, but also that it’s been a protracted process that spans hundreds of years. One set of slave ships didn’t ruin everything. Granted, they had a substantial impact, and that was a big turning point for us, but the history is so much deeper than that.
Emory: Now understand, there were a lot of Garveyites in the Party. You had the Freeman brothers from LA who came up here. Marcus Books! They were Garveyites. They were sending my first political posters when they were over in Leavenworth before they moved back into the Fillmore.
Senay: To sit on the couch with the blueprint for the kind of work that I do, to talk about organizations that I have the utmost respect for…it’s an honor
Delency: It’s inspirational. Like I was saying earlier, I’m 30 now, but a lot like yourself (Emory) I just never saw myself being this age. So to be able to see folks like yourself, Jalil Muntaqim…it makes me want to live and be older because you don’t see that many [revolutionary] examples.
Emory: Thank you! And the last thing I’d like to say, earlier we were talking about capitalism and the need for money…without money you can’t support political prisoners. You can’t address other social justice issues. So in that context, if you are a working person and you say “ I got my job, I have to do my job well, but I want help and do something, but I can’t quit my job.” Well make a donation to political prisoners, or to their families, or to other social justice issues. That is a contribution in itself. The parts that make up the whole.
